Gristle Crüe Call — 5G, FUD, Water Sensors

Jumped right into 5G Eco­nom­ics today (not much is known, still Wild West), then went into deal­ing with FUD. From there we flowed into the water lev­el mon­i­tor­ing & flash flood talk, maybe there’s a grant there. Upcom­ing pro­posed talks were for a WISP to talk us through set­ting up advanced back­haul, hav­ing a hydrol­o­gist on to help us under­stand the prob­lems they face, and more sen­sor experts!

We fin­ished up with talk­ing about the key aspects in set­ting up an out­door unit and how to approach vent­ing & temp con­trol. Great call!

8/23

5G eco­nom­ics

It is unknown.  I know you want sol­id prices so you can pre­dict ROI etc.  I don’t think they’re there, nor can they be pre­dict­ed with any kind of accu­ra­cy.  The $.50/GB and $60/hour were just start­ing point guesses. 

5G Stats Visualizations

https://heliumgeek.com/5g

https://app.hotspotty.net/helium-5g-genesis-mobile-rewards-calculator

Explor­er 5G lay­er: https://explorer.helium.com/

Is PCN list­ed anywhere?

FUD

Dean Bub­ley

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/deanbubley_decentralised-cryptocurrencies-dewi-activity-6966374617330425856-Fiwm/

I think he’s talk­ing about RevoFi, not Heli­um.  He also styles him­self as an “out­spo­ken indus­try ana­lyst”.  In my lim­it­ed expe­ri­ence, any­one who calls them­selves out­spo­ken is gen­er­al­ly a pain in the ass to deal with and usu­al­ly not worth lis­ten­ing to.

Point: “I’m unclear what devices or appli­ca­tions would need & pay for a (patchy) crowd­sourced network

Coun­ter­point: Heli­um cov­er­age isn’t very patchy.  Plen­ty of cur­rent usage of LoRaWAN net­works exist.  Heli­um makes it so the cov­er­age is already there and all you need to deploy is a sensor.

Point: MNOs aren’t going to roam onto a grid of unknown access points in ran­dom places

Coun­ter­point: Heli­um and Pollen have both indi­cat­ed MNOs will

Point: MNOs won’t pay in vari­able cost fun­ny mon­ey tokens

Coun­ter­point: No one is ask­ing them to.  They buy DC, which is a fixed cost, and if my guess is right, they’ll buy that access in fiat from Nova or HF.

Point: Web­sites don’t men­tion customers

Coun­ter­point: Heli­um has announced new cus­tomers every week for the past year or so.

https://www.helium.com/ecosystem

Crüe Grant Talk

Water lev­el mon­i­tor­ing in New Mexico

News

Free­dom­Fi Spec­trum out­age — “radio con­trollers” were over­loaded.  FF/Nova scaled up sup­port and fixed it.

Sept 21–23 — Main­net (Mes­sari) https://mainnet.events/

Sept 20th https://www.helium.com/house 

Lat­tice Ven­tures talk

Use Cas­es

(Gen­er­al, not Heli­um) Broad­band on Kilimanjaro

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/22/1118764547/mount-kilimanjaro-internet-service

All users (link also above)
https://www.helium.com/ecosystem

Recent Users

Orkney­Lo­Ra

Com­mu­ni­ty

Water Foun­tain Project

-pump etc ordered

-Seeed send­ing sen­sor pack­age ear­ly Sept

Inter­sec­tions of data

DAO for poles

Bo, 180 euros/year

Mold, temp, motion, sound sensor

• Russ’ Nation­al Park ranger water flash flooding
• Spe­cif­ic project for flash flood­ing sen­sor build
• How to back­haul future Crue dis­cus­sion, start­ing a WISP, star­link, ethernet
• Bo WISP part­ner, Chris?
• Seeed Sense­CAP S2120 8in1 weath­er sta­tions… looks like they are going to be under 250USD per
• Heli­um­House meet up the day before, Crue
• Bill for LoRaWAN setups
• Russ Ubiq­ui­ti crüe set up
• Bor­ing Protocol

Aver­age data usage per SIM?

Tmo­bile $5/mo 5gb

Mint

Tel­lo

Chat Tran­script:

10:00:31 From Jay M. : hi frens
10:00:43 From Nik Hawks : Yo Jay!
10:00:47 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : Hey Jay, woot
10:02:28 From Eric Jonas : Hel­lo every­one
10:02:29 From Jay M. : $60 is the peak and well in the future
10:03:04 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : Hey Eric ?
10:03:23 From Nik Hawks : https://heliumgeek.com/5g
https://app.hotspotty.net/helium-5g-genesis-mobile-rewards-calculator
https://hotspotrf.com/helium-5g/
Explor­er 5G lay­er: https://explorer.helium.com/
10:03:59 From Eric Jonas : Pollen bet­ter than Heli­um 5g for mak­ing $ or still the same uncer­tain­ty? Sor­ry got in a lit­tle late.
10:05:05 From 619OTA : I see me
10:05:40 From Jay M. : is pcn list­ed on an exchange?
10:05:50 From Eric Jonas : Kevin O’Leary said his com­pa­ny is invest­ing in Pollen Mobile.
10:05:56 From Eric Jonas : From shark tank
10:06:37 From Jay M. : I thought O’Leary said he invest­ed in heli­um a while ago?
10:07:03 From Elon­Tusk : Serum DEX
PCN/USDC $0.165619
10:08:53 From bostew­art : Thanks Elon and 619OTA
10:10:09 From Elon­Tusk : ?
10:11:40 From Nik Hawks : https://www.helium.com/ecosystem
10:12:18 From Nik Hawks : https://www.iotsoundsensor.com/
10:14:53 From Michael Corum : Hap­pened not that long ago in Mis­souri
10:15:01 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : I saw the videos from the Grand Canyon today
10:15:03 From Russ : The Nation­al park I live in has a hydrol­o­gist that I have dis­cussed flash flood­ing with if you want him on a crue call
10:15:06 From Elon­Tusk : ?
10:15:29 From Nik Hawks : Would love that Russ.
10:16:25 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : Great idea Eric. Water rights are big in NM too when you buy and sell prop­er­ty. Nik and I dealt with that. Could be a huge future project as water gets more scarce.
10:16:48 From Michael Corum : I’d be inter­est­ed
10:17:18 From bostew­art : we have no ICE in Ibiza just now
10:17:30 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : Nego­ti­at­ing the irri­ga­tion was crazy.
10:17:33 From bostew­art : More expen­sive than cocaine
10:18:40 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : I think flash flood would be huge too
10:20:16 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : Israel had badass desali­na­tion sys­tems
10:21:32 From Elon­Tusk : HH NYC is Sept 20th
10:22:07 From Elon­Tusk : https://mainnet.events/
10:22:53 From Jay M. : TIPN
10:23:04 From Jay M. : token incen­tivized phys­i­cal net­works
10:23:27 From Jay M. : meat­space sounds bet­ter
10:23:28 From Nik Hawks : https://www.npr.org/2022/08/22/1118764547/mount-kilimanjaro-internet-service
10:24:46 From Travis Teague : and… it can back­haul on star­link…
10:25:54 From Jay M. : have there been any crue dis­cus­sions on back­haul?
10:26:04 From Jay M. : would be cool to learn about how to start a wisp
10:26:08 From 619OTA : ive watched some Sot­N’s from my peak
10:28:34 From Travis Teague : one note, the Seeed Sense­CAP S2120 8in1 weath­er sta­tions… looks like they are going to be under 250USD per
10:30:00 From Michael Corum : MNTD had a flash sale yes­ter­day — Blackspots for $200
10:30:09 From Michael Corum : and it was 5G enabled
10:30:23 From Eric Jonas : No hap­py hour the night before HHNYC like they did in ATX. Bet­ter do a Gris­tle Crue meet­up in Cen­tral Park on 9/19. We can BYOB and play lawn darts. The ille­gal ones.
10:30:52 From 619OTA : kin­da crazy prices are so low with rasp­ber­ry pi’s so expen­sive. I see peo­ple buy­ing hotspots just for parts
10:30:59 From bostew­art : just called my Busi­ness part­ner
10:31:17 From bostew­art : Is hap­py to come onto dis­cuss Back­haul
10:31:22 From bostew­art : not now
10:31:23 From Eric Jonas : Keenan said no on the night before. Only a net­work­ing event after the event.
10:33:45 From bostew­art : whats his name
10:34:23 From Travis Teague : he did a short update on Hacks last week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsQm9n3YjnE
10:34:54 From Eric Jonas : Does Neil own Track­pac?
10:35:09 From Elon­Tusk : Yes
10:35:38 From Travis Teague : his Col­lab note­book stuff is sick
10:35:59 From Eric Jonas : Right on. He’s a standup guy. Glad he’s hav­ing suc­cess.
10:36:39 From Eric Jonas : He said he’s bring­ing some track­ers to HH to give out to folks.
10:36:57 From Travis Teague : io.tracker just dropped a huge firmware update w/ a large web con­fig­u­ra­tion com­po­nent that is very much worth tak­ing a look at. (down­link bul­ders, etc)
10:37:56 From Nik Hawks : Thomas with Tingkart
10:40:16 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : Mold is a huge prob­lem.
10:41:06 From Elon­Tusk : ?
10:42:31 From Michael Corum : I have an EGR in my house because it is actu­al­ly too tight — so needs the extra air move­ment to avoid mold from being too tight
10:43:11 From Travis Teague : https://pasteboard.co/j56EPoAxf1U3.png
10:44:01 From Russ : bfg neal said light hot spots are pre announced for $129. I bought 10 new Nebras for $1,100
10:45:13 From Eric Jonas : Just an FYI I have a Glow­forge laser engraving/cutting machine. If any­one needs any cus­tom enclo­sures for small­er units like Pi’s, sen­sors etc let me know. Pro­to­types only because I can’t mass pro­duce effi­cient­ly enough to make it cost effec­tive.
10:46:20 From 619OTA : a good loca­tion is worth more than equip­ment
10:46:33 From Eric Jonas : Have you seen Bor­ing Pro­to­col’s enclo­sures for their nodes they sell? I can do stuff like that.
10:46:37 From Michael Corum : Some­body just put up a Heli­um hotspot about 100 meters from my house so my scal­ing went from .55 (already dis­mal) down to .27
10:46:40 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : It’s all about con­nec­tion too
10:47:13 From Elon­Tusk : Your scale bare­ly mat­ters 🙂
10:47:20 From 619OTA : also. I aint prof­it shar­ing if I got­ta con­stant­ly hike out and fix it
10:47:55 From 619OTA : if I got 6 things on my pole that’s 6x a chance of some­thing going down
10:47:56 From Eric Jonas : And for Crue mem­bers I will help with pro­to­type enclosures/cases for no cost except mate­ri­als.
10:48:13 From Eric Jonas : Acrylic is crazy expen­sive rn
10:48:27 From Noah Chin : with HNT being so low right now, how is every­one deal­ing with month­ly data charges? I have 100+ remote instal­la­tions mak­ing on aver­age 4–5 HNT per month yet I pay $75 for unlim­it­ed data for each. Has any­one come up with a cre­ative way of pro­vid­ing your hotspots data?
10:48:34 From Michael Corum : On top of my house, I have a TV anten­na and Heli­um and GeoD­Net anten­nas on the same set­up
10:48:47 From Michael Corum : Weath­erXM device on the way lat­er this year
10:49:14 From 619OTA : @Noah. what router you using ? im on Mint Mobile $45 for 3 months
10:49:52 From Russ : Exhaust Gas Recir­cu­la­tion (EGR) Valve
10:50:26 From Noah Chin : can you get 100+ sims with Mint? I’m using pep­wave and inhand
10:51:57 From 619OTA : sure. can have 100+ sims. hit up enclo­sure and off grid.
10:51:58 From Jay M. : noah, take a look at tel­lo for cheap lte data plans
10:52:06 From Travis Teague : I pay under 9/month on a rut240
10:52:22 From Russ : Tmo­bile $5/mo 5gb
10:52:32 From Elon­Tusk : $9/mo??
10:52:32 From 619OTA : last month we had some data spikes. about 6–8gb of used month
10:52:44 From Eric Jonas : Y’all check out Bor­ing Pro­to­col and let’s start a con­ver­sa­tion about that this week. Their token is $BOP It’s a decen­tral­ized VPN and they sell nodes for $400 USD that you can mine BOP with.
10:52:52 From 619OTA : but im on the 4gb plan. throt­tled works fine
10:52:53 From Eric Jonas : They spoke at HHATX
10:54:00 From 619OTA : ya. 4gb at 4/5G speeds. after that its 128kbps. which is fine for LoRa … don’t need speed any­more cuz no more sync­ing.
10:54:09 From Eric Jonas : boringprotocol.io
10:55:01 From 619OTA : what hotspot man­u­fac­tures do you have ?
10:55:05 From Russ : Olivia is very expen­sive for more than a few hun­dred meg
10:55:36 From Travis Teague : do they not already have data on those bill­boards?
10:57:33 From Travis Teague : don’t leave pow­er until the end 😉
10:58:20 From Elon­Tusk : Vents = mois­ture. 🙂
10:58:37 From Travis Teague : put dessi­cant in there
10:58:46 From 619OTA : maybe wor­ry about heat in NM. look at a solar shield
10:59:26 From Noah Chin : thanks for the good sug­ges­tions!
10:59:27 From Elon­Tusk : Des­ic­cant only works in a sealed sys­tem
10:59:37 From Travis Teague : yep
10:59:45 From 619OTA : yup I use sil­i­ca packs.
10:59:47 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : You bet @noah
10:59:58 From Noah Chin : we use dessi­cant. were in the south
11:00:19 From 619OTA : alu­minum tape helps. ya
11:00:27 From Travis Teague : got­ta bounce folks. take care.
11:00:33 From Noah Chin : we’ve been through hur­ri­canes. all good with enclo­sure and dessi­cant
11:00:38 From Elon­Tusk : Lat­ers Travis 🙂
11:00:45 From 619OTA : get a heli­um temp tab sen­sor
11:00:57 From Eric Jonas : Thank you every­one
11:01:52 From Eric Jonas : Take care every­one.
11:01:57 From Jay M. : cheers
11:02:00 From bostew­art : Thanks
11:02:00 From Elon­Tusk : ?
11:02:05 From 619OTA : ?
11:02:05 From Lee (Team Gris­tle King) : Thanks every­body! great to see you!
11:02:05 From Michael Corum : great one